The Thrill of It All…

July 21st, 2008 at 11:48pm Lou

In romance novels, the hero and heroine see each other and get that thrill in the pit of their stomach. This is how we know they will end up with each other (usually after trials and tribulations). 

 

To take this a step further, I know a woman. She has tended to get involved with men who have the “thrill factor.” About 3 years ago, she met a fellow who had that “thrill factor,” He liked to do the same things she does, and they hung out for a couple of years. However, he was not willing to commit further, didn’t really take her anywhere, didn’t really support her when she needed it, never made special plans (she always had to do that), and on occasion he drank too much. They broke up when she discovered that he was not monogamous – a deal breaker that my friend had made clear to him from the beginning. Then, my friend found out that many of the things he told her about himself were either half-truths or outright prevarications. The break-up was hard on her because they had seemed so compatible and did so many everyday things together. Sounds like a page from the “He’s just not that into You” book.

 

She is now in a relationship with a fellow who is smart, philosophical, pilots his own plane (a small one, but still…), makes plans for special weekends, and flies her to those places. He is attentive to her and never drinks too much. When visiting her house, he cooks for her (well, grills and smokes on the grill/smoker he bought her, but still…). I’m also told that he knows his way around female anatomy better than anyone. And when she had a non-life-threatening medical situation that required driving over 2 hours one-way to see a specialist, he went with her, and stayed with her to make certain she was taken care of. A real stand-up guy. BUT – for some reason known only to the depths of her mind – he doesn’t have that “thrill factor” for her. I’ve seen a picture – nice eyes, good hands, physically fit, and quite good looking. He also has a great, deadpan sense of humor. (When she mentioned to him that she admired his expertise with anatomy – he looked her straight in the eye and said, “I took it in school – twice.”) YET – no thrill factor. Sigh… Go figure… 

 

A woman I work with who studies psychology, says that the “thrill” we feel is actually a fight-or-flight response to a person – mother nature’s way of telling us to keep our distance. But still we chase that adrenalin rush. Why do some of us need that adrenalin rush that the thrill factor brings? Is that why the trill factor is so important to some people? Are they adrenalin junkies? Could you feel that thrill for a man who doesn’t make your stomach flip, but is a good, steady, stand-up guy? 

 

What do you think? 

Entry Filed under: Sophomoric Brain Development

117 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Lou  |  July 21st, 2008 at 11:55 pm

    Hummm, must figure out how to eliminate the double return between paragraphs. I pasted and copied from a word doc. Seems to have worked except for the double returns. Any suggestions??

  • 2. Lou  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 12:09 am

    Well, buggers. I read this I don’t know how many times, and I just read it again and found a spelling error - something spell check would not catch. Where you ask?? LIke I’m going to tell you…

  • 3. glamour-geek  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 12:20 am

    I think she’s insane. :D

    Even if you start with the “thrill” it does fade, which is part of our body chemistry as we get used to and attached to someone. And, really, wouldn’t you rather have someone you still have something to say to over the breakfast table when you are 107 and too old to respond to any thrill, even if you were so inclined?

    Great sex, great conversation and fun things to do. And yet she wants something akin to terror?

    I suspect she might get that terror feeling if he decided to walk one of these days because she won’t commit.

  • 4. cbpen  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 1:15 am

    Hate to admit this, but you are talking to the wrong person. I married a “bad boy”. He was a great friend and fun to party with but impossible to live with. And it started with the thrill. So then after the divorce, I discovered that no matter how different they seemed to be in the beginning, they all ended up being just like the X. I have a type. And, since I am not attracted to the type of men I admire. I love hanging out with them. Love the sense of humor. But no chemistry. So, I quit. I am a none. I decided I was torturing the man who should be great for me and stopped. And now I’m too old for those games. :) But…. Every now and then, I’ll see a guy and say, “oooh, he’s interesting….” And my friends quickly turn me in another direction and GET ME OUTTA THERE. ;0

  • 5. cbpen  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 1:18 am

    YIKES!! Sorry about the sentence fragments…I guess, just thinking about it short circuits my mind. ;)

  • 6. GatorPerson  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 6:49 am

    The only way I’ve figured out how to get rid of the extra blank lines is to go to the HTML version and do a few deletes. Even with comments you can go to the edit mode and get rid of the lines through HTML without losing the comments.

    Thrill factor. Schmill factor. That guy sounds like a complete winner. She needs to go for it. I think one of the downfalls in the romance novels is that there seems to be a thrill factor required before the novel concludes. It’s just not real life very often. I agree with gg.

    Alan Bates. Now there was an actor who gave me thrill factor. But in old age (50?) he turned greasy looking. No thrill for me. And then the poor guy died.

  • 7. LtL  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 7:07 am

    Alan Bates is dead? Heck. Wasn’t he that cute guy from To The Manor Born? Then he was maybe a butler in Gosford Park (which was just like the book Snobbery with Violence)?

    Excellent post, Lou. And quite an interesting idea for us to think about. I have two sisters, both of whom have lousy luck with men. Remember once asking the older one, “Sister from Hell,” how she knew if a guy was wrong for her. She said, “Well, if I’m attracted to him, he’s going to turn out to be a jerk.” Jerk meaning abusive drunk.

    I don’t think I’ve ever felt that “thrill” at the pit of my stomach. Which may be why I spent a lot of my early years doing stupid and dangerous and ultimately damaging things, just to get a little of it. I’ve been married for 36 years to a guy who is good looking (and lean, so his looks are holding even as his hair is not), smart, funny, and lots of other good things. Not inclined to put his things away, but nobody’s perfect. He brings me coffee every weekday morning. And I’ll do something awful to anybody who tries to get between us.

    When I met him, I thought, “He’s interesting.” He was my best friend’s date, though. I felt a pull, though, not a “thrill.” And, have to say, I do a lot of eye-rolling when I’m reading romances in which the H/H fall for each other in the first few pages. Slow and steady wins the race. We know the difference between romance books and love in real life. That’s why is ok for us to read the romances, even the dumb ones, but we try to keep them out of the hands of our young girls. Really, sleeping with a guy you hardly know is not the way to happily ever after. It’s the way to Mr. Goodbar.

    I wish your friend could wake up and see what she’s about to fritter away.

  • 8. LtL  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 7:18 am

    Googled Alan Bates. Never noticed this guy before. Peter Bowles it was who played in To The Manor Born. He was cute. Not thrilling, mind you. Walking along the ridgerows of the manor house in a thunderstorm, that would be thrilling.

  • 9. BCB  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 8:23 am

    I’ve known people like that. Nothing is ever enough, romance or anything else, there is always something else out there on the horizon that keeps them searching. And really, I think that type of personality is part of what drives some people to be the ones who lead adventures and make discoveries and chart new paths for the rest of the world. But I think there’s more to it than just adrenaline, or the lack thereof. Human behaviour is just not that simple. Of course, there is the opposite, the ones who are content with or willing to settle for whatever they have, no matter how little or how insufficient some of the rest of us think it looks. I guess those are the ones who “stay home” and tend the fires. Most of us are somewhere in between and find that thrill vicariously by hearing about the exploits of others — through stories, in whatever form (spoken, books, movies, tv).

    Sabrina Jeffries wrote a very funny article a while back listing the top ten (I think, maybe more) reasons why she would NOT want one of her own very alpha male heroes in real life.

    Lou, give your friend’s friend my name and number. Oh wait, you don’t have that . . .

    Meanwhile, on another continent, today is the last day of the trek and my DD will at some point be standing in the midst of the ruins of Machu Picchu, stretching out leg cramps and catching her breath while she marvels at the imagination and effort and creative mystery of an ancient civilization. [sigh]

    Back to the oh-so-thrilling real world of making a living and paying the bills.

  • 10. me  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 8:23 am

    Well, if she doesn’t want him, give him my phone number. It’s on the Portland spreadsheet. :-)

  • 11. McB  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 8:30 am

    Lou - as GP said, if you click the html edit tab you can edit out the extra space without risking the text.

    The “thrill” - well it just seems like so much fun at the time. Some people mistake that high for happiness. It’s like a woman I used to know who was always in deep debt because of her shopping addiction. Buying something new gave her short term pleasure, and she had that confused with happiness. Lest you think that’s not the same thing, she spent as much energy hiding her purchases from her husband as another person might spend hiding an ilicit lover from their spouse.

    The other possibility is that running on a high keeps people from looking too closely at themselves. If they slow down too much they might start noticing that they aren’t so happy after all. Introspection is scary stuff so they just keep running.

  • 12. McB  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 9:18 am

    And to answer the last question, I personally find the strong silent steady type to be pretty danged thrilling. I’ll take substance of flash any day.

  • 13. McB  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 9:18 am

    And to answer the last question, I personally find the strong silent steady type to be pretty danged thrilling. I’ll take substance over flash any day.

  • 14. Mary the Sage (it's about Thyme)  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 9:50 am

    Lou?
    If you paste the Word document into Notepad, it should strip out any unwanted excesses in the way of formatting, yes?
    p.s. Yes, your friend’s crazy. If he and Me don’t click, my # is also in that phone list ;)
    p.p.s. Maybe having other women drool over the man might make her find him a more desirable companion?

  • 15. CMS  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 9:53 am

    What’s thrilling to one person is boring to another. I get that tickle in my belly whenever I have a stimulating conversation with a man. The intellect triggers a physical response for me*. I’m discovering that my pattern needs “a little less talk and a lot more action.” I also think that as we mature our stimulants change. Right now I’m reasonably happy being single but have noticed my flirting has increased so who knows. The way I figure it, if I can amuse and entertain myself, I should be able to do the same for others. If not, I’m not bored. I’m fairly narcissistic.

    If this woman doesn’t appreciate this man, she can send him over here. If he flies a bi=-plane I think BCB and McB should have dibs on him.

  • 16. glamour-geek  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 10:12 am

    Have to add this: you can create your own zing/thrill. Beau is, in some ways, a “bad boy”. Then again, he’s also the boy that everyone thinks is sweet and kind and my mother and two of our oldest family friends are all smitten with him. Everyone who meets him says what a “nice guy” he seems to be. Well, he is, but he’s also got a strong sense of adventure (traveled from France to China, Pakistan and India OVERLAND (no planes) when he was younger, etc), creativity and wildness. He has a t-shirt that says “Restless”. People have looked at it and asked, “You?” Oh, yeah. Very much so. They just don’t know that side of him. It’s one of the things I like.

    The problem, I think, is when we imagine that nice and thrilling can’t go together. People who meet beau think he’s more quiet and conservative than he is. People who meet me think I’m outgoing, but fairly normal. Then they get to know us and find out otherwise. :D

    Ltl: Beau also isn’t very good at putting things away. Drives me nuts. But does do dishes and can cook and there are other positives.

  • 17. LtL  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 10:14 am

    BCB–will your DD be posting pictures of her trip?

  • 18. LtL  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 10:16 am

    I just noticed the part about flying the plane. Important: get to know something about a man’s sense of humor before you climb into an airplane with him at the controls. This is very, very, extremely important.

  • 19. Lori  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 10:26 am

    Got just a couple minutes before storyhour.

    Lou: Love this post. Seriously. It’s making me think. The man does sound lovely, and I don’t want him. No really, I’ve got enough to do without a man hanging around.

    However, those who read NR’s Tribute might find this amusing… Ford is practically my dream guy. Don’t get me wrong, I know the differences between reality and fiction… and know how to have fun with those differences. However, if Ford would have had slightly curlier hair, he would have nailed just about every attribute I am usually attracted to (on the right guy of course… all about how the individual carries it off, ya know?).

    Last day of Summer Reading program in 10 days. (I might make it out alive.)

    JenB: I don’t report results to the teachers (privacy is a Big Deal in libraries), but we all know it helps the kids involved… so the teachers let me hang around anyway.

    O.K. off to the wonderful world of fruit.

    Hope to get back later.

    Have fun in SF!

  • 20. btuda  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 10:49 am

    Love this post. Reminds me of one of my early writing attempts at trying to convince a reader that an accountant was sexy. To each their own.

    Yes, I’m still around. The good news: I’ll be able to come and play a bit more often now. The bad news: The reason is that my main employer let me go last week. *sigh* GG? Got any good job searching tips?

    I’m alternating between WTF?!? and The B#st@rds! and Huh?!?! Kinda came out of left field. Let’s just say fraud doesn’t always just affect the customer. Part of my job was to protect our customers against it and I didn’t catch it in time when I possibly could have.

    I still have the candle store for right now. I’ve sent out three resumes this morning and hopefully more tomorrow. I’m almost brain dead right now.

    Well, gotta do some cleaning. DSS is coming by to help me get ready for a visit to the folks and the house is a mess. I’ll check back in soon!

  • 21. McB  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 10:54 am

    Oh yeah, Ford was a great hero. But I fell in love with his dog first.

    What G-G said about appearances being deceiving is true. Or it’s probably more accurate to say that people don’t always look beyond the surface. Bob knows I’ve dealt with enough of that. Petite doesn’t equal sweet and helpless.

  • 22. McB  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 11:05 am

    Hi Btuda! So sorry to hear about your job situation. Sending wand dust your way.

  • 23. K.L.  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 11:58 am

    Great post Lou.

    Btuda, good luck in the new job search. Sounds like you got the short end of the stick on this one.

    My First True Love back in high school was a bad boy. I still sigh over him. I absolutely know that he wasn’t good for my self esteem, but I sure did love to be around him. My DH is solid, steady and perfect for me. However, we are together in spite of the “no thrill” thing. That part sucks, but it would be an absolutely stupid reason to mess up both our lives and head out, just to take a chance that some other guy has everything i need AND the thrill.

    So if I was your friend, I would go for the guy she is now with. But she has to live her own life, and maybe this is one of the life lessons she needs to learn.

  • 24. me  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    Btuda, I’m sorry. Luckily you have the candles. Can you go full-time there? Even temporarily? Hopefully something will turn up, and it will be better than before.

    Sounds like I need to read Tribute. (Yeah, I know, I haven'’t yet. *hangs head in shame* )

  • 25. glamour-geek  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 12:46 pm

    Btuda: Sorry to hear that. Yes, it sucks and sometimes the wrong person gets the blame. For a reference there: see Enron. Lots of good workers losing everything and the idiots in charge who caused the problems not getting anywhere near enough punishment.

    The best advice I got was for interviewing: When you meet with them, make them imagine you in the position. Let them visualize how working with you would make their lives that much better.

    Aside of that, I let everyone I knew who had anything to do with my industry know I was looking, scoured the listings that focus on my region and area of work, and applied to so many positions that I thought I would turn blue. But out of that came about 7-10 phone screens, 5-6 in-person interviews and one job. And since I only needed one, that was ok.

    The other things that helped were beau, my parents and all of you helping to keep my spirits up when I got blue and when I thought I couldn’t possibly apply to anymore places, applying to a few more. Vigilance and persistence.

    Good luck to you and cbpen, if she’s still looking too…What news?

    I haven’t read Tribute either.

  • 26. GatorPerson  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 1:59 pm

    Good luck, Btuda. It’s awful to get caught in crossfire of someone else’s doing.

    This inquiring mind wants to know, and forget the italics …
    Nora Roberts has come out with Blood Brothers (11/27/07), The Hollow (05/05/08), Tribute (07/08/08), and an In Death… , all within a year. And I probably missed one. How does she do it and still maintain some degree of quality control? Does this stuff just fall off her fingertips with no editing, or what? Surely one of you knows her technique.

    Those of you who are writing seem to spend a whole lot more seconds/minutes/hours/??? per word that she does. From what I can tell, most ongoing/selling writers can put out a book a year. But 4+? This inquiring mind wants to know.

  • 27. LtL  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 2:06 pm

    Oops! Dumped my cookies again. Well, I’ve been using several computers lately, and I’m easily confused, so . . .

    Me had a great idea, btuda. Do you love the candle store? Can you grow your job there, or can you help grow the business? Summer’s probably a quiet time in the tiny fires business, but September is coming. If you’re in a college town, you’re in luck, with all those dorm rooms and apartments to decorate.

    Whatever thee wishes, may it come to pass.

    You do wonder about those who can churn out books like that. Practice and work ethic are good. Probably staff researchers, typists, and private copy editors would also speed up the process.

  • 28. McB  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 2:17 pm

    GP - She says that she just writes fast. And from what I have heard and read, she writes more or less 8 hours a day just like any other work schedule. Sticking to that would take more discipline that I have. I think she also has a lot of drive. I remember reading years ago that before trying her hand at writing she did every craft under the sun and she joked about macrame-ing a small car.

  • 29. K.L.  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    Nora is the most prolific author I’ve ever heard of. She usually puts out two JD Robb books, along with one or two short stories, a trilogy and a hard back contemporary romance. This year, the trilogy actually started in December of 2007, so her 2008 book count is 3 hard backs, 2 paper backs and a short story.

    What really amazes me is that she can keep the story quality up through all that. Truly amazing woman.

  • 30. Marcia in OK  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 4:35 pm

    btuda - thinking about you and wishing you a move to bigger/better things. I left some Apples with Everything for you on the counter (Granny Smith apple dipped in caramel then 3 kinds of chocolate and other good stuff from Rocky Mountain Chocolate Factory.)

    My relationship with a “thrill factor” guy didn’t work out for the long haul. But, it was an interesting to say the least 17 years and we have two amazing DDs. Thrill guy moved on to Thrill Girl with her own Harley.

    I didn’t realize til it was all over, how stressful thrilling relationships can be. Always drama, and stress, and that edge of your seat, knot in the pit of your stomach feeling, just isn’t worth it ALL THE DAMN TIME. The next time around - if I have that opportunity, I’m going to look for more of a “spark” and avoid the thrill.

    On a totally unrelated topic, I got the weirdest phone call today from Seth at the Glass Repair shop. Seems that I have a benefactor, and as soon as works for me, “I need to bring my car into their shop so that my windshield can be replaced.”

    How weird is it that someone would pay to have the broken/cracked windshield replaced on my 14 year old $166K mile Camry? It has been broken for 4 years. Why now? Who would do that? I have NO clue. I’m not sure I even know anyone that has a spare $300-$400 right now to spend on such a thing.

    I’m calling it a day. My brain is fried. (And, I still have to come in and do 3 more quarterly tax returns tomrrow. UGH!)

    My apologies for all those quotations and the improper grammer and the undoubted misspelled/misplaced words. It is a weird day.

  • 31. Diane (TT)  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 4:54 pm

    Yes, I’ve been reading JD Robb lately (I tried some NR and didn’t care for them, but gave in and gave Eve Dallas a chance - very much enjoyed them). I’m amazed by how many books she manages to get out. I think the patterning helps with the productivity, but the plotting is solid and the through-stories of the continuing characters keeps me coming back.

    As far as “walkability” goes, I guess I’d have to disagree with their score. I got a 31 here, where there is, essentially, nothing I walk to (I could walk to the dentist, if the street by my house had a way to cross), a 45 in Ashland, where I regularly walk downtown (though my parents, who live there, don’t - there IS quite a hill) and a zero in my new place in Ohio, where work, church and lots of little shops are definitely within walking distance (work is 1.2 miles, which seems perfect to me - enough distance to be exercise, but very doable). Kroger is only 0.7 miles away! How is that a zero? There are probably a dozen restaurants between home and work, too (I hope I do not find this too tempting!).

    As for the thrill thing: I didn’t start finding Magnum (Tom Selleck) attractive until he started acting responsible (was there a daughter or something? the storyline eludes me). So, what is thrilling varies widely. I don’t find the “bad boy” thing sexy (well, Brad, but I was 17, and he was pretty amazing). But I’ve been alone most of my life and “nice” isn’t enough to make the work of a relationship worthwhile, either.

    I knew a couple in grad school where the woman had a bunch of romances and then decided to settle down with someone nice and caring and safe. They were divorced in less than a year, because there wasn’t any zing in the sex (a weird call to get from the male half of the couple, with whom I was better friends!). I was bummed, because I thought they would complement each other (they met at my house, I helped with their shower, etc.). But we want what we want, however irrational. One of my aunts chose a fun guy - I thought they would complement one another well (she tends to take things too seriously). That one didn’t last either.

    And I hope that Louisa’s rescripting goes well with the girls! Too many women choose poorly (I have another friend who is a nurturer - she ends up with SUCH needy men!). CBPen, if you’re happy, that’s great, but it seems as if there has to be a better solution than avoiding men you find attractive. But maybe the therapy is, again, more trouble than it’s worth…

    Btuda, I’m sorry about your job! Good luck finding something new (and, if you think it might suit you, do consider a home-based business like Pampered Chef. It’s fun and flexible and people do make quite a bit of $ at it, often while maintaining other jobs, or homeschooling their 5 children or whatever). Work isn’t very nifty, but income is highly desirable!

  • 32. glamour-geek  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 5:12 pm

    I think everyone needs someone who makes the trials and tribulations of everyday life seem lighter and easier. And who makes them laugh.

    Of course, sometimes that’s your friends, not just your partner. But they’re good qualifications for anyone you want to let close to you.

  • 33. McB  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 7:20 pm

    admittedly, “nice” isn’t always enough. I dated a guy 2-3 times that a friend introduced me to. She was upset that we didn’t live happily ever after together. I mentioned to a co worker that it made she feel guilty because he was a pefectly “nice” guy. Co worker summed it up correctly when she replied that potted plants were nice too.

    And I don’t say that to knock the nice guys. But I want someone who can do strong when I’m too tired to. Otherwise I don’t see the point.

    And geez that’s enough philosophy for the night.

  • 34. LtL  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 7:53 pm

    Tired or not, McB, you’ve hit the nail on the head. A guy who can do strong when you’re too tired to. A woman who can play turn about. Each one can see when the other is lacking something, and can fill in, or buck up, or whatever it takes to keep the team going. All the time that I was over at Mom’s (I got stuck there–she fell again, and there was no leaving her; I just couldn’t see leaving her when she was not able to get from the bed to her wheel chair without a lot of thought and just making herself take that chance again) DH would call me every night and tell me something funny that he had found or heard. Usually, keeping up the family’s spirits is my job. But DH saw–or felt, as we were only in telecom & email–that I needed some spirit-raising myself, and he stepped in. So, yeah. The very thing.

    I love men and I worry that we’re not appreciating them enough. I worry about our sons. Well, I don’t have sons, but I feel that we’ve gone too far toward the feminine mode. I still want equal pay for equal work, mind you. Balance, Grasshopper.

    Going to hang out with Mom for a while now.

    Good night Mrs. Calabash.

  • 35. Lou  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 7:55 pm

    Well, for some reason, now that I have posted from home, I can’t comment from work. Work is apparently off and on now for being able to comment. They push out all kinds of patches there regularly - don’t know if that has anything to do with it.

    Diane - Tom Selleck??? Bad Behavior??? He’s one of my favs and he married a dancer named Jilli Mack quite a while ago. They are still married live on a ranchette in the Malibu hills, and have a daughter who shows horses. Saw a picture of them in a horse magazine. Both seated in folding chairs, him sprawled out (all 6′4″ of him), her asleep on his chest - cracked me up because they looked sooo like horse show parents (it’s an exhausting thing being a horse show parent - not to mention expensive).

    Friend is still with guy. They live about an hour and a half apart, so they are not in each other’s pockets. She definitely likes him - is not in love. (But he is.) We’ll see what happens.

    And I’m with McB - I want someone who can do strong, ’cause it’s just to damn exhausting to do it myself all the time. I also want someone who’s smart enough to generate some excitement, plus humorous enough to lighten my dark side.

  • 36. Lou  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 8:00 pm

    Marcia - please be VERY, VERY careful about that replacing the windshield thing. No one, I repeat no one, ever (especially in this day and age) gives something away for nothing. It might be that creepy neighbor trying to get on your good side. Just please be very careful!!!

  • 37. GatorPerson  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 8:12 pm

    Ya know what? I’m really tired of being the strong one for everybody in my immediate family. My fantasy is to curl up in some strong hunk’s lap in a rocking chair and take a nap. Yeah, that’s a real turn on for me. Thrills beyond thrills. Really!

  • 38. McB  |  July 22nd, 2008 at 9:58 pm

    GP- my phrase is “it’s someone else’s turn to be the grown up”

    And I have something to add to that but first I will second Lou’s word of caution for Marcia. Greeks bearing gifts and all of that. The shop owner should understand that and be willing to part with a few details or lose the business. A woman does have to be careful.

    Back to what I was saying. It was remarked in the last round of comments that many of us seem to beat up on ourselves, even while admonishing others for doing it. I think it’s more that we know we are strong and capable and feel obligated to be that all the time, even when, damn it, we’re tired. And that is, for me at least, what the B&G represents. A place where I can be less than perfect but not thought less of. Because sometimes you need the fantasy of being someone who hits the tequila too often and chases men in uniform, kilts or breastplate. And afterwards you can go back to being a solid citizen again safe in the knowledge that no one here will reveal that double life ‘cuz they’ve got one too. And I thank all of you for so enthusiastically going along with it all.

    Say goodnight Gracie.

  • 39. cbpen  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 12:18 am

    Marcia: On the other side of the coin, it may be someone “passing it on”. You know some unknown person helps you so then you help someone else when you can. I’ve done that…when I was working. I used to occassionally pay for the car behind me at a fast food restaurant…especially if the car was really worn looking and full of kids. :) I couldn’t afford a windshield.
    gg: yes I’m still looking
    Diane: The thing is, I said to myself, I want someone different, but even though the guys seemed different in the beginning, they ended up ALWAYS being like the x. I have never been one of those women who HAD to have a man in her life. So if I walked into a man someday who had all of the gentle man qualities and did not lose them as time went on…I might think about it. ;) I won’t say never, but it’s improbable. It’s the ones that I am attracted to instantly that I KNOW are bad for me and so do my friends. They have better sh*t detectors than I do. 8)

  • 40. me  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 8:21 am

    marcia: I was going to say the same thing Lou and McB did. Or it may be a scam through the windshield place somehow and you could end up paying something in the end. Yes I am cynical. I would have told Seth, Yeah, right, and I’m the Queen of England. If you go, ask to see the bill and make sure it was paid. And maybe by whom.

    McB: “Potted plants are nice too” LOL!

  • 41. Marcia in OK  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 9:47 am

    THANKS for the input. I was just feeling very weird about the whole “prepaid windshield repair”. It is just strange. I’m not doing anything for a few days, then I might walk over and ask for details. (I don’t think I have to worry about a scam with the company itself, because it is the most reputable and higher end $-wise in Tulsa.)

    GP - I’m with you. It is exhausting always being the “go to” person for others. I have dreams of a go-to person just for me. We’d curl up on a porch swing . The idea of being surrounded and safe - just for a little while is nice to ponder.

    And if you aren’t careful potted plants get all moldy. I have terrible allergies to mold.

    I too am very thankful for the B&G. It is the best to know that others “get” just what you are trying to say, but can’t quite express.

    And now, I’m done with philosophy for the day.

  • 42. jenb  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 10:24 am

    You all are, without a doubt, the very best. The comments are what all of the young girls and women of today need to hear.
    I have found if a person does not think highly of themselves first no one else will. And I don’t mean being (as we used to day in jr. high) stuck up about what you have,etc. but just a value of who you are and what value you bring to the relationship.
    And too the work of a relationship never ends. I told my DIL that almost everyday will be a new and different challenge, so if you know that going in it seems easier to make it through the harder times.

    Lori, wonderful world of fruit????

  • 43. glamour-geek  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    This is really interesting to me. About 10 years ago, I was chatting with my cousin (a few years younger than I am) who lives in London (Eng, not Ont.). We agreed that men were too wimpy and we were tired of meeting men who saw us as strong women and wanted mommies to take care of them. We were both looking for partners.

    Seems that’s relatively common among the women I know. We want someone who can share the burdens, not another place where we always have to do all the thinking/planning/work/whatever.

    Hmmmmm.

    I had come to the conclusion that the “gray flannel suit” era combined with women’s lib had created a generation of women who were strong and knew what they wanted and a generation of men who were out of touch with both their masculine and feminine sides and were just plain confused about who they were.

    There are tons of exceptions. Beau is a strong man, who is also sensitive (and the person his male friends always want to hang out with when they need comfort and things aren’t going so well, because he understands and is thoughtful and considerate with their feelings) and I know there are plenty of women out there who still want a big macho guy to take all the responsibility and tell them what to do and who they are (they’re just not my friends because I can’t relate–the women I know and like are much more complex than that: you folks, for starters), but it is a weird set of historical situations that have gotten us where we are.

    I notice this is less true in the 20-somethings I know, so perhaps we’re recovering from whatever it was that made the women and men I know so frustrated with each other.

  • 44. Diane (TT)  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 12:46 pm

    On the topic of women not thinking highly enough of themselves - I just read the new Suzanne Brockmann (and stayed up virtually all night to do so, which may be why I appear to be developing a cold today), and her books are full of women who don’t seem to think they deserve much from men. All kinds of interesting story developments - with a 14th book due out in the spring to, I hope, resolve some of the ongoing stuff. I wanna know more about Izzy! And it looks as if there’ll be more Lopez in the future, too, but Suz isn’t saying who the “main couple” is for the forthcoming book.

    Lou - it was the character of Magnum who was a flake. Nothing against Tom Selleck at all! That thing of a big strong man flaked out with a little kid sleeping on him - very attractive, because that’s what we want, someone for ourselves and our children to count on. But there must be fun, too!

    Marcia - I dunno if you need to be worried about windshield repair. I know that in NY, it is totally covered by insurance, with no deductible, so maybe that’s all there is to it. But it’s always better to know what one is getting into!

  • 45. BCB  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    Taking just a quick minute here, as boss is otherwise occupied. That won’t last. Since I know you all have been just worried sick about my DD. Well, one of us has been.

    She has returned safely from Machu Picchu and is in the Lima airport, waiting through a 12-hour layover until the flight leaves tonight for Buenos Aires.

    It was a short email but used lots of words like amazing and incredible and awesome and challenging.

    She hasn’t figured out to post pictures in Blogger yet, and her laptop was going dead. If she sends any to me I’ll put some on my blog. And no, I am not going to give you her blog address. Sorry.

  • 46. McB  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    Yay! Glad to hear DD is safe and accounted for. Sounds like she has had an amazing, incredible, awesome and challenging adventure.

  • 47. BCB  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    Since my boss is still distracted and not hovering for a change . . .

    From her email:

    The Lares Trek to Machu Picchu was by far the most challenging and the most incredible thing I have ever done! They advertised the trek as not very hard…well, our guide said it’s the second hardest trek you can do, and actually harder than the Incan trail! That’s because you climb 3 mountains and this trek has higher altitudes than the Incan trail. Well, day one was pretty tough but so exciting. Our pass for that day was 4,400 meters (or 14,432 feet), and the view from on top of a
    mountain that high is just stunning, especially after you’ve just climbed it!! The passes on day 2 were 4,200 meters and then 4,500 meters. It was amazing passing through the villages and seeing the Andean people living in the traditional way. They were all so friendly and happy. Machu Picchu itself was pretty incredible, it was unreal being there.

    Back to work for me.

  • 48. glamour-geek  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 3:17 pm

    I AM SO JEALOUS! I want to go to Machu Picchu. Beau has been, but said he would go again.

    Buenos Aires is a very cool city. Though there is lots of pollution (leaded gas, etc.), many of the buildings are in a central European style, but not restored. It gives the impression of faded elegance. The neighborhoods are also very individual and fun to go to. Lots to do, lots to see, but very European in tone.

  • 49. jenb  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 3:49 pm

    BCB, thanks for the update! I feel better knowing she and BF are doing fine. And I hope they arekeeping a journal as they travel.

    Lou, this has been a fascinating subject. I was wondering what you all thought of how mothers influence daughters in this regard? And what about the relationship they watch between their parents. And what about the father and daughter.
    Does any of it matter?

    Wapak, have a wonderful time in Atlanta!

  • 50. K.L.  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 4:35 pm

    Hi Everyone,
    Here’s another “mom” update. She is recovering from the defibrillator surgery. Her left shoulder area is extremely sore, but she is feeling better every day. Tomorrow she goes in for the second part of the proceedure. They insert a wire into her heart and zap the nerves responsible for telling her heart to beat. This part is scary. Those nerves are telling her heart to beat too fast. Once they are dead, the defibrillator takes over the job. At this point she will be dependent on the defibrillator for the rest of her life. Hopefully, once her heartbeats are under control and slowed down, she will feel better, and her enlarged heart will have a chance to heal.

    I’ll get a report tomorrow afternoon or evening.

    FYI. I’ll be out of touch from Friday through Monday for our annual huge family get-together for the weekend.

  • 51. glamour-geek  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    KL: so far, so good (yay!). Steady as she goes.

    Why is it not surprising that a CB has a mom who has an “enlarged heart”? I think really it’s true of all of you in the best possible way. *smooches!* :)

  • 52. eidlhe  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 4:47 pm

    ((((btuda)))- sorry to hear about the job situation.

    Lou- I know where it is…spotted it the first time I read it, but I’m not telling.

    Marcia-that sounds odd. I’d definately do some looking into it.

    K.L-hugs to your mom and you.

    GP-I received my gift in the mail. :) Very appropos as I have decided that next spring I will have my very own.

    BCB-glad that DD and BF are having fun and keeping in touch with you. Perhaps when your DD gets home you can share some of her pics with us.

  • 53. RSS  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    Haven’t read through the comments yet but my gut is that some women and men go for the people who subconciously they know will let them down or relationships that won’t work out. Definitely must be a psychological reason for this. There is no other way to explain why people continually pick significant others who hurt and disappoint them.

    And then there are those who settle–I’ve listened to people say “There is probably someone out there who is a better match but I don’t want to look any more.” And some I’ve known who’ve said this are still happily married. Others aren’t.

    We are a strange and incomprehesible species.

  • 54. RSS  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 5:41 pm

    Forgot to say Fantastic Post Lou.

    You guys are going to get tired of me because I can’t wait until I get through all the posts until I comment.

    Loved Ford. Good thing ’cause I married someone very similiar in all the important areas. And no he doesn’t put things away. But then again I’m not great at that either.

    Never went through a “Bad Boy” phase. They just don’t appeal to me. Even in novels.

    Btuda–so sorry about the job. Sending good vibes your way.

  • 55. K.L.  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 5:50 pm

    One more “mom” update. She had a visit today, and the doctor wasn’t happy with the placement of one of the wires in her heart. He adjusted it, and postponed tomorrow’s proceedure until he is totally happy with the way the wires in her heart are interacting. Good that he is thorough. There will be more waiting until everything is finished however.

  • 56. RSS  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 6:06 pm

    Thanks for sharing part of your DD email BCB. Sounds like the trip of a lifetime.

    I have sons not daughters. Hopefully they will be good partners and that I have done my part. One thing I know, they have seen that marriage is a working relationship and that both spouses need to support each other and that it’s important to talk to each other.

    I’m very very lucky and know it. And I knew at the end of our first–blind date that he was “The One” and that it was different from thrills/attractions/ whatever I had felt in the past. It took him a little longer but not much. Talked 2/10, lunch 2/12, dinner 2/14 (both of us very careful not to mention it was Valentine’s day and he drove through a blizzard and slid down a hill to make the date), engaged at Easter married in August. Almost 22 years and like the Energizer bunny still going strong. (Okay didn’t mean that in a dirty way just that our relationship keeps going and going and growing and growing and I’m going to stop now before you all die of laughing in the gutter.)

    Tho I write romance, he is the more romantic in our relationship–go figure.

  • 57. glamour-geek  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 6:16 pm

    KL: I like this doctor your mum has. He wants things to work properly and will do what he needs to to make sure they do!

    Na na na-na na! I get to see CMS and Scope on Monday for lunch AND I’m bringing my mum along with me! Woohoo! :D

    On topic (surprise, surprise), I think it was Dee (but maybe it was Jen T) who once in a comment long ago said that at some point (or points) in your relationship, you have to decide to stay in love with each other. That stuck with me and when I mentioned it to beau a long time ago, he agreed and noted that he and his ex-wife had not made the decision to stay in love (they are, however, close friends). I would like to think that beau and I can work hard enough together to make those decisions in the other direction.

    My parents still joke around and play games with each other and tease each other. I note that beau’s parents do the same. And that in many ways, beau and I are recreating both these patterns that we watched, since we joke around together a lot and have our own silly jokes. Not to say we don’t have our own set of problems, every relationship does…

    And again, I have a girl friend who is in her early 40s and keeps saying “I’m not attracted to men in their 50s!”. Um, first, who said she had to date someone older than she is? Second, what happens if she meets someone within a few years of her age? Will she suddenly not be attracted to him anymore in 8 years? Third, what’s with the stereotypes? There are 30-somethings who seem aged and 60-somethings who seem more energetic than I am by a long shot. And she expects a man to be as far along in his career as she is in hers and make a pretty high income. What about the people who either switched careers (perfectly acceptable) or who decided to pursue low-paying work that they find really fulfilling? What if her perfect guy was someone who worked at a non-profit that helped disabled kids or worked with the homeless or otherwise made the world a much better place but only earned a little because those kinds of organizations don’t have a lot of money or like to spend most of it on the communities they’re supporting?

    I keep pointing out these things to her because she’s a very smart cookie, but somehow even though she agrees that she’s making some very bad assumptions, she’s always back to square one after a while. I wonder if she’s made so many decisions about what she likes and what she doesn’t that she’s created a model that is completely impossible to fill.

    When I met beau, I was perfectly happy on my own as a single gal and while I expected to date, I didn’t expect to meet someone I’d want to stay with forever. My friend would really, truly love to be in a relationship, but she has a lot of expectations and pre-determined criteria. So I worry about her a bit, but there’s not a whole lot I can do.

  • 58. Lou  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 6:29 pm

    eidlhe - of course you did ’cause you’re so smart!!!

    K.L. - so glad it’s going well with your Mom. As gg said, “Steady as she goes.”

    jenb - I think that parents have a lot to do with how relationships are perceived. Whether the parent is a single parent (of either sex), if they are stiff and formal and not willing to talk about life experiences but just give orders, if they are relaxed and playful with each other and their child and willing to share their life knowledge, etc., etc. Parents of other childhood friends can also be examples (good or bad). I believe that what a child grows up with is their initial view of how relationships work (or don’t). Then life experience will teach them what works for them (if they learn from whatever mistakes they make).

    One last word about my friend. She’s smart, athletic, honest, confident, self-aware, a very loyal friend, and a terrific person. She just loves a challenge - whether it’s a new task, a new job, a new athletic endeavour, a relationship - whatever. After she has mastered this new challenge (and she always does), she gets bored. She knows she’s like this but has yet to figure out why. If a (good, steady) man were smart, he’d figure this out and give her a challenge once in a while just to keep her on her toes.

    BCB - Sounds like your DD is having the experience of a lifetime - how cool is that?? If I were you, I’d be worried too, but kudos to her for being brave and adventurous!!

  • 59. glamour-geek  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 6:33 pm

    Lou: your friend sounds like me. I had a pattern of being in a relationship for a year and then getting bored. Found out everything there was to know; I was done. Well, beau and I are over 1-1/2 years now and I’m far from getting bored. He does indeed keep me challenged. There are still new things I find out about all the time… You WHAT?!? I love a (good) surprise.

  • 60. LtL  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 6:57 pm

    Oh, you guys–what a turn of topic. Well, not a turn, really. Lou very skillfully set this up.

    First, K.L. more good thoughts for your mom and her doctors. Take care of her through the family reunion.
    BCB–thanks for the Andean Update. This is such a wonderful thing for your daughter. Such support you are giving her. Way to go.

    Wapak–you took your camera, right?

    Men, women, oy. Scope should come in on this, too. Before I married, I worked for a wily old Cajun staff sergeant (old being late 30s) who was married to a woman some years older than he was. Both had been married before. He told me once that some days he woke up and he just didn’t love her, but he knew that if he waited a little while, he would love her again. Same as the idea that GG was expressing. Of course, if the going is really rough, if the spouse is a jerk, then waiting will just postpone the stalking. But for normal people, not pulling the plug in haste is a good idea. We do have our moods, humans do. The trick is not to let the moods govern your life.

    I used to believe that people learned how to be married by watching their parents. But how to explain my two sisters? My daughter? Maybe they are all way too optimistic, believing that a little tingle equates to the possibility that the guy won’t beat the kids or gamble away the house or put everything he earns up his nose. Tingle is not a good predictor for that.

    DH and I were friends for a year or two before we became a couple, and I was within half an hour of breaking it off with him when he proposed. We were both in the military and were about to be stationed on different coasts. We were in different military services, but that wouldn’t have mattered back then. I did not want a long distance relationship. He wiggled around, turned down an assignment that would have put him a few miles from his family’s home (they never learned of this) and took a less-enticing aircraft in order to be stationed in SATEX, which is where I was.

    Nowadays I think that you can tell a lot about a man by the way he relates to his mother. If he treats her with respect, but is not, you know, Bates Motel weird, then he is a good bet, I think. And you can look at his father and get an idea of what you are going to have to look out for in the future. Of course, I didn’t meet my in-laws till after the wedding. Probably, I have no idea what I’m talking about. I am a lucky person, and as DH says, it is better to be lucky than good.

    DH sees the yellow background and wants me to tell you that I have added a golf course out by the lake. I have been very clear with him that there is NO golf course here, though I did find a small landing strip on the other side of the island. That’s how we bring in the men in kilts. And now he’s worried I’m going to move the whole thing to the West Coast. I need to talk straight with him.

  • 61. BCB  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 8:53 pm

    Holy crap. I’m trying to catch up on comments, but you all talk too much.

    Btuda, I’m sorry and really not sorry AT ALL about the loss of the #$%@$ job. Seriously, woman, I’ve been hoping for MONTHS that you’d leave that place. It was not worthy of you. As evidenced by the fact that they thought THEY should be the ones to say, “See ya.” You will find something better.

    Marcia, just be careful. That’s all. Not that I’m overly cynical or anything.

    KL, I’m glad your mom’s doctor(s) are being careful. Is she going to the big family get-together? Because unless your family is, um, not like any other family I’ve ever known, that will be stressful. Keep us posted.

    I don’t feel qualified to talk about the whole relationship thing. The Dog’s Favourite Person and I are fan-damn-tastic parents (she said humbly) and I think we have made a huge success in raising our two children. So far. But at some point we stopped making each other laugh and instead made each other miserable. We had the good sense to admit it before too much damage was done to the kids. Now that neither of us has to put up with the other as a spouse, we are good friends again. But let me tell you, I am damned difficult. Really. It would have to be someone very special to take me on and survive. I like the idea of someone who would be strong when I’m too tired to be. Just not sure I believe it.

    DD emailed again from the Lima airport. Not much to do in an airport for 12 hours. Other than email your mom. They’ll only be in BA for two days before they go to Mendoza. Knowing my DD, they will squeeze in as much as stuff possible while they’re there. Now she wants me to send her step-by-step instructions on how to post pics in Blogger. *snort* This should be interesting. Oh, and I had to explain to my son (who has apparently neither read nor posted on a blog until today when he commented on his sister’s blog) that blog comments are PUBLIC. And anyone can read them. Including your mom. And your grandma. [sigh] He is such a guy. I love that about him.

  • 62. Mary  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 9:13 pm

    Btuda, before my current job, I wrote documentation for the call center of a bank. I revised the Fraud procedure — I counted — 47 times in the 1-1/2 years that I was there.
    There is just no way anyone is going to remember all the latest changes-of-the-day that the bank’s expect you to follow. It’s insane.

    I keep reading about how all of you are strong women, and having met some of you I do believe it. But please believe me when I say not ALL the CBs are strong women who have a sense of their own worth. I have the self-esteem of a cuttlefish, and I mean one who’s just been insulted by her favorite cuttlefisher and has decided to hide in the rocks and play igneous for awhile. In other words, it ain’t there.

    But I like hanging out with you guys anyway :)

  • 63. LtL  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 9:35 pm

    Mary, you are very cool and we like you. If you don’t think well of yourself, you are contradicting our considered opinion. I’m just saying . . .

    Well, that’s a wrap. See you all tomorrow.

    Good Night, Mrs. Cuttlefish and all the ships at sea.

  • 64. McB  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 9:44 pm

    in the order that I think of them not in importance:

    1 But RSS your gutters are so much fun to LOL in ;)

    2 Btuda darlin keep us in the loop re job or just stop in, no excuse needed

    3 KL sounds like this doc has his priorities straight.

    4 some people are in a hurry and take the first person that comes along out of fear. And often they are the ones with unrealistic expectations. Marriage is just one route on the journey, not the whole trip. Tomorrow the toilet will need scrubbed.

    5 I knew BCB was a fan damn tastic parent because her kids like to be with her. Possibly they haven’t been on roadtrips with her

    6 parents influence their kids, but influence - like impressions - are
    Difficult to judge the effectiveness of in advance.

  • 65. McB  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 9:50 pm

    huh “I’m not strong” says the woman who just bought a new home and invited 14 people she had never met to come visit. You mydear are strong. If you haven’t learned it yet you will.

  • 66. BCB  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 9:54 pm

    Mary, m’dear, I never met a cuttlefisher whose opinion I respected overmuch. I believe their insults should be taken as the highest form of compliment. Anyone who can host umpteen billion CBs and live to tell the tale is as strong as she needs to be and has unsurpassed worthiness. Just maybe not sea-worthiness. That might be the problem. Stay out of the ocean.

    Isn’t cuttlefish short for cute little fish?

    Bedtime here. Some wee storms coming through to serenade us with thunder.

  • 67. BCB  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 9:55 pm

    umpteen billion = 14.

    New math.

  • 68. Ms. Cuttlefish  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 10:16 pm

    Not waving, but drowning
    - Stevie Smith

    Not strong, but delusional
    - Mary

  • 69. Ms. Cuttlefish  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 10:24 pm

    I kept expecting the Realtor to laugh mockingly and tell me that there was no way I could afford to buy a house. Or indeed the broker. Not sure how much their lack-of-laughter is a measure of my house-buy-ability or their need-to-make-a-sale-ability.

    What? Why are you all looking at me like that? Did none of you grow up in a family who had the “who died and made you Grace Kelly” attitude?

    This attitude is instrinsic to the Irish Catholic mindset. Someone-I-can’t-remember once wrote the ‘guilt was the Irish form of masturbation.’

    Personally, I think it goes beyond this particular group — there’s a feeling that it’s bad luck to feel too happy or too sure of things. You’re riding for a fall, ‘asking for it’ if you take anything for granted. That contributes to the milquetoast approach to life, i.e. the antithesis of the strong minded woman I’ve been reading about on this blog.

    what’s that? Mary, you’re maundering? Well faith and begorrah, I’d hate to be doing that.

    Your turn.

  • 70. Mary  |  July 23rd, 2008 at 10:32 pm

    In the interest of becoming stronger and less cuttlefish-shy, I did post a picture of myself on the Thursday post of www.Crankyfitness.com.

    Yes, full frontal. Not a back view.

  • 71. Mary  |  July 24th, 2008 at 12:07 am

    Blogger was clearly not designed by an editor. Click on the above link without the grammatically correct period after the phrase:
    http://www.crankyfitness.com

  • 72. McB  |  July 24th, 2008 at 6:07 am

    it’s only “taking for granted” if you don’t appreciate it. If you appreciate your blessings/luck/good karma then you are just as entitled to it as anyone else. And some of us did appreciate (read not taking for granted) you long before we knew what you looked like,so, QED you have everything you need. Quit whining.

  • 73. GatorPerson  |  July 24th, 2008 at 7:14 am

    Scrubbing toilets… Suppose a messy crime has been committed in a house. Who lives in this house, the detectives ask? Let’s take some fingerprints from inside the toilet bowl. Then we’ll REALLY knows who lives in this house and takes care of it and eliminate that person from the suspect list. Obviously there are no fingerprints of the male-type resident there.

    There ya go, BCB. That could be worth something for your novel!

    Well, Mary does have a leetle trouble telling red lines from blue lines. But I thought cuttlefish were born just to give birds something to sharpen their beaks on.

    A million years ago my SIL was trying to buy her first car. She was afraid the salesman wouldn’t sell her anything because she was female. Also a million years ago I used DH as a front man when dealing with car salesmen, then pounced in to write THE CHECK. No more. I did all the negotiating this time, and I always deal with all the car maintenance. There was also an incident in which a window repairman said to DH sometime after I had been there, “Your wife thinks like a man, not a woman.” Times have changed.

    Ramble, ramble… Nobody who has the guts to feed her dog carrots is a wimp. Or let a stranger go prune everything in sight in her new yard.

  • 74. RSS  |  July 24th, 2008 at 8:43 am

    Great post on crankyfitness Mary. Thanks for sharing. And though I only know you on-line, I think you are much much stonger than you realize. Buying a house is a huge step. Having 14 women you’ve never met visit–That puts you up into Goddess/Warrior strength right there.

    I don’t think I ever claimed to be a strong woman. I have learned that I have strength when I need it so must be stronger than I thought I was. hmmm, does that make sense. Maybe I need more coffee But self-esteem is something I have to work on bolstering daily. There are many days I too hide from the nasty cuttlefish that said something to hurt my feelings. So you are not alone.

    My family never used the Grace Kelly line but what I learned was avoid confrontation at all costs. Just pretend everything is lovely. If you fight it means you don’t love each other. And complimenting yourself means you are vain, vain, vain so cut it out already.

    K.L. Good for your mom’s doctor. So glad to know he’s going to make sure the wires are working before going the next step. I know the wait is hard for your mom and for the rest of the family but so much better to have it done right. Have a great time at the family get-together.

  • 75. LtL  |  July 24th, 2008 at 8:59 am

    Grace Kelly? Hmm. Family tapes & their difficulties.
    My mom thought all of us kids were geniuses.
    Dad was an absolute stickler for the work ethic; the most scathing thing he could say about anybody was “that’s shoddy work.”

    An average or below average report card was shoddy work.
    We were all geniuses.
    Ergo, a bad report card was evidence of laziness.

    Laziness is the farthest down, ugliest sin in our lexicon.
    Everybody has a priority list. Ours was always work hard, play hard, never be a cog in a wheel.

    I might have preferred Grace Kelly.

  • 76. Marcia in OK  |  July 24th, 2008 at 10:20 am

    K.L. - glad mom’s got you and her doctor watching after her so carefully.

    BCB - so glad DD and BF are keeping you updated. And, yes, we’ve been worried about her too, so good thing you posted an update.

    GP - it is very empowering to make that car deal. I only had to rise from my chair ONCE the last time I bought a car. Car Guy finally realized that he had to deal with me and my questions, and trade-in bartering and the like. It was thrilled when my little brother (just turned 40 and is 6′2″) asked for my help when he bought his first truck years ago.

    Mary you are stronger than you think. Trust us on this. And, remember, so many of us hang out at the B&G because it gives us a place to practice being strong and to remind ourselves of the stuff we know and admit when we need help, or when we are screwing something up, or just need to know we aren’t alone.

    Have to leave to take DD10 to the Doctor for a checkup.

    I’ll try to sort out what I was trying to say later, and say it better.

  • 77. McB  |  July 24th, 2008 at 10:44 am

    Here’s the thing about self esteem. If you have it, nothing people say is going to bother you. If you don’t have it, everything people say will bother you.

  • 78. K.L.  |  July 24th, 2008 at 10:58 am

    Mary,
    The key is to respect yourself enough to not allow the idiots to walk all over you. If you can do that, you are strong indeed.

    My family reunion is on the DH’s side, so my mom will be safely sitting in her chair reading all the books I brought over to her. And the reunion is more like a get-together, since we all live within a couple hours drive of each other and see everyone several times a year. It is just that this particular get-together is at my DH’s aunt’s house. She has 5 acres right on a river, so we all bring tents and make a long weekend out of it.

  • 79. GatorPerson  |  July 24th, 2008 at 11:15 am

    Here’s something that I find a little scary. I view myself as an extremely strong person, and get more feedback from people who say the same thing. Many times the feedback is not presented pleasantly, but it’s there, all the same. Yes, I do have a fairly thick skin when told I’m not good enough.

    What I find scary is that most people I come in contact with are NOT that strong. When I’m dithering around with shouldas and couldas I think of those people and wonder how they even manage anything. Which pack of cookies to buy, what brand of gas, whether to speak up for themselves or not. I think way too many people live in a constant state of not-strong-enough, beating up on themselves. I wonder if this is a national “heritage,” or if people from other countries and cultures are the same way.

  • 80. orangehands  |  July 24th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    First, apologies. My internet has been failing (and therefore I have no addresses) so I haven’t sent the postcards out yet but they go out today. Also, some of you may be getting emails because I can’t find my spreadsheet of addresses (which means when I become a stalker of CBs it’s going to be to a lot less CBs). :) If this laptop is breaking already…ugh.

    Btuda: Good Luck at the job search. What Jerks. (Though I agree with BCB you deserve a much better job, there’s that whole income thing.)

    GP: I head NR wrote her first draft as one big- get everything on the page. Then she goes backs and edits it. At least, I’m pretty sure I read that about her.

    KL: Glad your mom’s doc is so good.

    BCB: Glad DD is safe. Must be so much fun. And you definitely raised good kids.

    Marcia: Um, what? Please be careful in case it is freaky stalker guy. But if it’s a pay it forward kind of thing, cool. (Can you just ask Seth if this is what the man looks like, because he’s been after you and you don’t want to accept a gift from him, but otherwise, cool.)

    GG: Wait, how do you get to see CMS and scope? Did I miss something?

    Very interesting post. I’ve liked the comments too. I think the basic requirement of a good relationship is: Does this person make me happy (not all the time, but more often than not), and does this person make me feel good about myself? If it’s a no, why bother is my attitude. To fall in love it may be a little more, but to be in love it should work.

    And MCB at 77: And that’s basically the problem. You have to make your own self-esteem, nobody can talk you into it. (Which is why I’m not calling mary crazy cause she’s super strong…oh wait, just did, whoops)

  • 81. Lori  |  July 24th, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    Job Announcement

    Full Time Boss of Lori

    City in the middle of nowhere Minnesota is seeking a Boss for Lori (aka Head Librarian) with a Masters of Library Science degree preferred or B.A./B.S. in Library Science or related field (basically any degree might work) and a bunch of library experience. Position requires you to have no life outside of work, the ability to convincingly pretend like you like people, experience with computer systems that often do thinks you don’t want them to, skills in Googling, and considerable knowledge of a wide variety of books and authors (basically y’all can just put a check mark there). Person must have the ability to play well with money, the ability to tell other people where all the money is, and the ability to create endless reports about money (and many other things) without going completely insane. Must be able to train and supervise others while still being able to BS with staff around the water cooler. Must be able deal with public and other governmental agencies without anybody resorting to physical violence.

    Application deadline: August 11, 2008 at 1:00 p.m.

    If anyone is actually interested, they can contact me through email. Seriously, the sooner I get a new boss, the sooner less time I spend doing both her job and mine.

    Just in case anyone is wondering why I’m not applying, my standard answer is: I’d would much rather spend my days playing with kids than paying the bills.

    I say it more tactfully of course, but that’s the bottom line.

    Be back later.

  • 82. Lori  |  July 24th, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    I don’t have time to edit. Please just figure out what I was saying, ‘k?

  • 83. orangehands  |  July 24th, 2008 at 12:42 pm

    HA. never mind. I can stalk you all again. :) Postcards will be going out shortly.

    Damn, if it wasn’t for the whole need the degree and more experience than a year, I would so do that. Even if it is in MN :)

  • 84. Kay T  |  July 24th, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    You all are so fun! I told OH that I was on a blog boycott since I retired and got back from my short vacation. I have not read any blogs since 6/27!!! Gasp! I was doing so well before I left too, keeping up with you all and Jenny and Dooce and…

    Anyway, sounds like you all had a great time in PNW and soon will see some of you here in SFBA. All the pics, stories, etc. are so clever. You should be writers! Or at the very least readers!

    Here is a morbid question. When is it time to remove your deceased parents (or deceased anyone’s) phone number from speed dial? I also have electronic versions in my PDA and computer address program, but since I don’t look at those that often it did not occur to me that having “Mom” in my speed dial was … ?? I think I did rearrange my cell phone so that #2 (or was it #3) was not my mom anymore.

    Sorry, this is sort of making me sad, but also it was sort of funny when I noticed it. (My mom has been gone almost 2 years.)

  • 85. McB  |  July 24th, 2008 at 1:24 pm

    First, I think we should all apply and take turns being Lori’s boss. Wouldn’t that be fun?

    Kay T - so good to see you here and please stop being a stranger. I don’t have the answer to your question. I think it’s one of those “you’ll know when the time is right” deals. Does seeing it feel worse than removing it would?

  • 86. Kay T  |  July 24th, 2008 at 2:07 pm

    There is something about losing that last parent. You feel closer to your own mortality, I think. It is weird.

    So on that happy note. Being retired is also weird. But FUN! Probably even more fun than being Lori’s boss. I am very good with money! Really! I am giving myself the month of July to get acclimated and then I plan to buckle down and wr…

  • 87. me  |  July 24th, 2008 at 2:13 pm

    Me first! Lori? Bring me a grande double caff extra whipped cream caramel macchiato. And rub my feet.

    Kay T, hey stranger. I agree with McB, when you feel is right. It was sad, but also sort of funny, so I would go with the funny and keep it around a while for when you need a smile. Or need to talk to Mom.

  • 88. me  |  July 24th, 2008 at 2:15 pm

    And by “or need to talk to Mom” I hope that came across that I meant mentally, spiritually, and I was not trying to be mean.

  • 89. Mary the Blue Lady  |  July 24th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    A chance to boss Lori around? Wow! Bring me a Norwegian Farm Boy, please. Preferably one that’s been redd up and is wearing a clean flannel shirt.

    Hey, speaking of the PNW solstice (how’s that for a tangent), is anyone else ever planning to post their private picture in picassa possibly? (Or somewhere else, but I was going for some alliteration in that sentence.) Should we send them all to Lori and ask her to do something about posting them?

  • 90. orangehands  |  July 24th, 2008 at 2:57 pm

    Kay T: Hello over here. And when you want to, do so. You can leave it in as long as you want to.

  • 91. Diane (TT)  |  July 24th, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    KayT - good to hear from you, glad that you’re enjoying retirement! I’m looking forward to that. Unfortunately, 25 YEARS forward, darn it. I’m not good at a) adding people or b) taking people off of my speed dial. I’m not currently using a landline, but my speaker phone that I was still using last year still has a neighbor from 1997 on it. I’ve moved (5+ times), and he’s married AND moved to TX, apparently - we haven’t spoken since 1997 (there might have been xmas cards for a year or two, but that fizzled).

    I would love to live in the middle of nowhere MN, but a) no library degree and b) very little tolerance with reports. Although, maybe once I had a handle on their importance, I could manage endless rearrangement of the same data for different purposes. And being the boss of Lori would undoubtedly be fun. I’m not sure I’d trust her to deliver Farm Boys, though, Mary. They might be delayed.

  • 92. Lou  |  July 24th, 2008 at 4:51 pm

    O.K. - It’s getting close to 100 and I’m supposed to post for Wapak. I will do that tonight when I get home.

    Marcia - dealing with car dealers. So much fun - messing with their heads!! I’ve always done my own bargaining - after much research - and asking to speak with the sales manager so that I can bypass all that I have to go talk to my manager cr*p. The getting up and leaving part is always fun - if you make it out of the building, they come running after you. Very entertaining.

    Mary, honey. You are a very strong woman. You are not even the one who suggested having summer solstice at your wonderful new house - some else offered your house (don’t remember who it was now) - and you let them. It takes guts to weather an invasion - don’t ever forget that…Of course, you had the German Shedder to protect you…

    And never let jerks intimidate you (they come in both genders these days). Just keep stating your wants calmly and clearly. If they refuse to listen, walk away. Someone else will have better customer service (which is what almost everything boils down to - good or bad customer service).

  • 93. Lou  |  July 24th, 2008 at 6:05 pm

    eidlhe - How is DH doing?

  • 94. BCB  |  July 24th, 2008 at 7:12 pm

    Mary, last night when I read your comment about a picture of yourself, I clicked on the link and for some reason the “new” post wasn’t up and I saw the picture in the post before it. And I thought, “Well, that is just not funny at all. Damnit, who is she to be so hard on herself?” Then today I saw the makeover pic and LMAO. Yes, two year old needing a nap pout. Good description. A very nice pic though, and good for you for posting it. You are beautiful . And strong.

    I know it’s a bad idea to go to the grocery store when I’m hungry. I know this. I did it anyway. Good thing I was so tired, or I’d still be there, loading one of everything into my cart. Sometimes, the knowledge that I’ll have to carry it all inside and put it away once I get home is the only thing that stops me.

    Too tired to eat now.

  • 95. GatorPerson  |  July 24th, 2008 at 8:26 pm

    KayT, welcome back. I tend to put stuff I just don’t want to get rid of in a subdirectory so that I can see it when I want to but don’t see it all the time. Yes, it’s different when the 2nd parent is gone. It puts you into a new sisterhood of those who understand but can’t possibly explain it to those who aren’t there yet.

    Lori, there hasn’t been enough flannel made in the last decade to tempt me to move to MN.

  • 96. McB  |  July 24th, 2008 at 8:36 pm

    I think that pout looks more like Merry is ready to rumble. In a chic coffee shop poetry reading kind of way.

    And, if I might go waaaay back to the topic (I know, that’s a shocker) it occurs to me that the thing with bad boys in romance novels is that they weren’t so bad after all.

  • 97. glamour-geek  |  July 24th, 2008 at 10:06 pm

    OH: I am going to Toronto to visit my parents, so I get to see Scope and CMS, too, this time. We’re going to meet at the same place we had lunch last time. You have to love a place called “Dessert Trends”!

    Yes, they have a case of beautiful single-sized desserts as well as doing big cakes and formal events. Part of going is ogling the case to pick out potential desserts before you order lunch, just to make sure you have room for whatever tickles your fancy.

  • 98. cbpen  |  July 24th, 2008 at 11:52 pm

    We had the Reunion this past weekend. I was the one in charge again. It gave me something to occupy myself for a little bit this past week. It was pretty fun. At first, I wondered because everyone who came brought pie. I thought “Oh, no, we’re going to have a little chicken, deviled eggs and PIES.” But of course, it eventually worked out into a very nice spread. There were a lot of people and kids swimming this year. E! ran into the bathroom and changed and ran out the door and DS was talking to someone and said “There he goes, I gotta go.” Then we had the white elephant auction and some of the parents let the little kids bid. A! looked so cute saying “three dollars”. The last package was “shiny” and they bid it up to $37! Then one of my cousins named Jack (there are at least three named Jack) rode one of his horses over. He lives down the road and around a corner a couple of miles from where we hold it. He let some people ride including my sister. People stayed around later than they usually do too. So I think everyone had a good time.
    That was work, but now I guess it’s time to get back to looking for a LUCRATIVE job. Why can’t someone just say “Hey you are perfect for this. And here’s enough money to pay your bills and have some fun and also some time to have fun too.” :) right. Being Lori’s boss might be fun except 1) no library degree 2) I no longer want to be the responsible adult in charge. ;)
    Old as I am, I’ve got 15 to 20 years before I can really retire.

  • 99. GatorPerson  |  July 25th, 2008 at 8:57 am

    A very entertaining movie: “Mamma Mia!” Meryl Streep, Christine Baranski, Julie Walters (Calendar Girls), Pierce Brosnan, and Colin Firth. Plus more. ABBA music. The premise is a little pushed, but the whole thing is fun. A musical. Hunks to watch. 3 actresses obviously enjoying making a movie. Every one of ‘em sings and dances. I recommend it for a time-out from stressful stuff.

  • 100. eidlhe  |  July 25th, 2008 at 9:23 am

    cbpen-I completely understand. Hosting/planning family reunions is a LOT of work. Sounds like everybody had a good time though so you must have done a fabulous job! :)

    Lou-DH’s back is doing better..has had some muscle soreness this week because he has been trying to be careful and probably compensating when lifting stuff. After multiple backrubs by a very compentent massage therapist (i.e. eidlhe) he seems to be feeling much better. Thanks for asking!! :)

    GP-re 95 LOL

    Lori-if only…I wouldn’t mind the job…but no degree and no degree in sight anytime soon either.

    WB KayT!

    Diane- I’d like to only work for 25 more years!!! I know that I have to work until I’m 73—so 40 some years—until I can collect my SS (provided it’s still there) Come on LOTTO!!!! =D It might help if I actually bought a ticket now and then…

    Did we decide on Picasa as our photo posting site?

    Scope-I got your lovely card in the mail about a week ago…just have been remiss in letting you know. THANK YOU!!! You’re such a sweetheart. I am still working on editing the pictures (roses) and will get them emailed to you as soon as I’m done with them.

  • 101. Lori  |  July 25th, 2008 at 9:54 am

    Ahem.

    My title is Assistant Librarian/Children’s Librarian NOT Assistant to Head Librarian/Children’s Librarian. (Come on, I know there are a couple Office fans out there). If you want farmboys, foot rubs, and coffee, you’ll have to find it in the budget to hire an assistant to the head librarian or fire me because I decide to what is actually in my job description instead of waiting on you (let me assure you that farmboys are not in my job description. Believe me. I checked).

    And NOBODY will like you if you fire me because they all like me. (Well, not all, but pretty damn close.)

    So there *sticks out tongue*. Crap. Now I actually might be fired legitimately.

    Oh well… back to the city I go…

  • 102. Lori  |  July 25th, 2008 at 10:06 am

    Oh, and what’s all this crap about not having a library degree? I don’t think y’all were reading the fine print there. I don’t even have my degree yet (yes, I still qualify for the position, but no I will not apply dammit. I actually like my job, and I’d like to keep it that way.)

    I have no idea what y’all chose. You talked in circles. I got dizzy and went to bed… so just another typical day at the B&G.

  • 103. Lori  |  July 25th, 2008 at 10:09 am

    Oh look at that fence… totally destroyed.

    I wonder how to go about mending it…

  • 104. Lori  |  July 25th, 2008 at 10:28 am

    Farmboys? Foot rubs? Coffee?

    Damn.

    I was afraid of that.

  • 105. Lori  |  July 25th, 2008 at 10:29 am

    Why, yes, I am fully capable of entertaining myself for hours, but it is usually much more entertaining if I don’t have to.

  • 106. Mary  |  July 25th, 2008 at 10:40 am

    Lori, Lori, Lori,

    Ask BCB to loan you some of her really cute contractors. They’ll rebuild the fence for you. Or mend it. Whatever it needs.

    Cary did an evil thing the other week. She posted the link to this addictive game.
    http://www.bubbleshooter.net

    Not that I am encouraging you to try it. No, I’m a responsible adult. Yep, that’s my story.

    It’s Friday!

  • 107. Mary  |  July 25th, 2008 at 10:41 am

    Plus, over at CrankyFitness.com there’s a poetry contest going on. Really bad poems are welcome. (I know, because I wrote one to see what would happen. Since you’re so good at Haiku, I figure you would be a shoe-in!)

  • 108. McB  |  July 25th, 2008 at 10:53 am

    And just when we get to thinking that we don’t see enough of Lori around here …

    I vote that we let Lori decide. We’re going to blame her anyway, she might as well get a say. Then she can tell us what we are supposed to do and when to do it.

  • 109. Lori  |  July 25th, 2008 at 11:22 am

    BCB, *bats eyes* would you be a dear, and pass over the info for the guy with the accent? You know the one, right? The one that talked you into all those repairs you didn’t need because A) you couldn’t understand him and B) you kept saying yes just to keep him talking. I don’t care if he’s married, or whatever, I just want the ear candy. Also will he work for foot massages instead of money? I’m a bit strapped.

    McB: Define enough.

    Bubbleshooter and a poetry contest… feeling like somebody is trying to get rid of me.

    No worries, I’m actually supposed to work now, so we’ll see how that turns out.

  • 110. Lori  |  July 25th, 2008 at 11:25 am

    BTW: I bat my eyes because I never learned how to bat my eyelashes. Strangely enough, batting one’s eyes seems to have a completely different effect.

    *shrugs*

  • 111. McB  |  July 25th, 2008 at 11:29 am

    enough [ i nf ]

    adjective

    Definition:

    1. adequate: as much as is needed … enough time to go shopping

    2. as much as is bearable: as much or as many as can be tolerated … in enough trouble already

  • 112. McB  |  July 25th, 2008 at 11:30 am

    You’d think a librarian would know this stuff.

  • 113. Lou  |  July 25th, 2008 at 11:41 am

    Good morning everyone. We had unexpected visitors last night and I was unable to post. Who is due to post this weekend? Do you want to post early - as I would not be able to post until tonight and we are over 100.

  • 114. BCB  |  July 25th, 2008 at 11:50 am

    Sure, Lori, happy to share. Just as soon as I’m done with him. Really.

    And I’d say this is sad news, but I’m not sure he’d want us to think of it that way. Randy Pausch has died. Remember the guy from Carnegie Mellon who gave “the last lecture” — I think we’ve talked about him over here.

    Here is a quote from the online article about his death today:

    Pausch often emphasized the need to have fun.

    “I mean I don’t know how to not have fun. I’m dying and I’m having fun. And I’m going to keep having fun every day I have left. Because there’s no other way to play it,” he said in his Carnegie Mellon lecture. “You just have to decide if you’re a Tigger or an Eeyore. I think I’m clear where I stand on the great Tigger/Eeyore debate. Never lose the childlike wonder. It’s just too important. It’s what drives us.”

  • 115. Lou  |  July 25th, 2008 at 11:57 am

    Lori - work? It’s Friday and goofing off is much more fun!!

    eidlhe - two things for your DH to remember. 1) When lifting, try to squat and use the legs instead of the back, 2) NEVER, NEVER twist as you are lifting something - it’s the twisting motion during lifting that causes back problems!! Glad to hear he is feeling better!!

  • 116. Lori  |  July 25th, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    I know this might come as a shock for all of you, but I am pretty well acquainted with the phrase, “in enough trouble already”.

  • 117. me  |  July 25th, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    I’m this weekend but I’ll do a quick little something now. Hold on a sec…

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